MAME vs FBA

[dankcushions]

so, the new FBA and Mame emulators in 3.1 have much-expanded gamelists:
fba-next: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GaqIIoiWbzKHwZ52S2xCSDQXILo81Ls1mHK6czKGAtM/edit#gid=1698778604
mame2003: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LP1MELCvcxu7TfiowF_0ZuvRVEMqlfQyTVetnOJvuJc/edit#gid=1744967714

with a lot of the newer 3d titles in mame2003 not working (or working very slowly), the core 1980-2000s 2d games seem to almost be at parity across both emulators. which one do people prefer? FBA has the CPS3 capcom games (street fighter 3) that mame doesn’t, but lacks the midway games (mortal kombat, nba jam, defender, robotron etc) that mame has (although anything after MK1 tends to be horrible on the pi 2). any other differences?

i’m thinking about ditching mame entirely to go 100% FBA.

[machtroid]

Do either of these run GI Joe or Lucky & Wild? Last time I checked neither emulator supported these, but that was back on 2.4 or so.

[Floob]

@machtroid
That (Lucky & Wild) was emulated in MAME .062
http://www.progettoemma.net/index.php?gioco=luckywld&lang=en

You can see what will support that here:
https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/wiki/Managing-ROMs

For example, lr-mame2003 has it in its dat file.

[dankcushions]

i’ve done some excel experiments – here’s a list of the games that ARE in FBAnext but are NOT in mame2003 (parent roms ONLY):

1945k III
4 player input test [Demo, 4 player input test cartridge]
7 Ordi (Korea)
A.B. Cop (World, FD1094 317-0169b)
A.D. 2083 [Incomplete Sound]
Agress
Air Assault (World)
Air Attack (set 1)
Alien Challenge (World) [Imperfect sound]
Alien Invaders [preliminary sound]
Alien Sector
Arcadia (NMK)
Asura Buster - Eternal Warriors (Japan) [Imperfect SND, freezes on first boss]
Back Fire (Tecmo, bootleg)
Backfire! (set 1)
Bang Bang Busters (2010 NCI release) [Prototype]
Battle Garegga (Europe / USA / Japan / Asia) (Sat Feb 3 1996)
Bee Storm - DoDonPachi II (V102, World)
Best Of Best
Bestri (Korea)
Bikkuri Card (Japan)
Birdiy
Bomb Kick (set 1)
Bongo
Boogie Wings (Euro v1.5, 92.12.07)
Buccaneers (set 1)
Bullet (FD1094 317-0041)
Bygone [Imperfect sound]
Cannon Ball (Pacman Hardware) [wrong colors]
Catacomb [Bad Colours]
Chain Reaction (World, Version 2.2, 1995.09.25)
Chance Kun (Japan)
Chaos (PGM Demo) [Demo, Demo Game]
Chaos Demo (CPS-1) [Demo]
Chaos Demo (Neo Geo) [Demo]
Charlie Ninja
Chip n Dale (Intro demo) [Demo, You must use the Universe BIOS and set region to Japan AES]
Choko (010820 Japan)
Choky! Choky!
Choplifter (8751 315-5151)
Choutetsu Brikin'ger - Iron clad (Prototype) [Prototype]
Codename - Blut Engel (2006-01-19) [Homebrew]
Columns (Neo Geo) [Homebrew]
Combat Hawk
Come Back Toto
Cookie & Bibi (set 1)
Cookie & Bibi 3
Crazy Fight
Crouching Poney Hidden Dragon (DEMO) [Homebrew]
Crusher Makochan (Japan)
Cyber Tank (v1.4)
Dambusters (US, set 1)
DarkWing Duck (Intro demo) [Demo, You must use the Universe BIOS and set region to Japan AES]
Date Quiz Go Go (Korea)
Deer Hunting USA V4.3
Demon Front (V105)
Desert Breaker (World, FD1094 317-0196)
Diet Go Go (Euro v1.1 1992.09.26)
Digger Man [Homebrew]
DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou (V101, Japan)
Dolmen
Double Point
Dr. Tomy
Dragon Bowl
Dragon World 2001 (V100, Japan) [Bad sound?]
Dragon World II (V110X, World)
Dragon World Pretty Chance (V101, Japan) [Bad sound?]
Duck Tales (Intro demo) [Demo, You must use the Universe BIOS and set region to Japan AES]
Dynamite Dux (set 2, FD1094 317-0096)
Dynasty Wars (US set 1)
Egg Hunt
Espgaluda (V100, Japan)
Excelsior (set 1)
Explosive Breaker
Fantastic (Galaga conversion on Galaxian hardware)
Fantasy Zone II - The Tears of Opa-Opa (System 16C)
Fever SOS (International, ver. 98/09/25)
Fighting Basketball
Final Tetris
Flying Tiger (set 1)
Frog Feast (CPS-1) [Homebrew]
Frog Feast (Neo Geo) [Homebrew]
Frog Feast (PGM) [Homebrew]
G-LOC Air Battle (US)
Galaga Demo (set 1) [Homebrew]
Galaxy Force 2
Gals Panic S3 (Japan)
Ganbare! Marine Kun (Marine 2K0411 JPN)
Garogun Seroyang (Korea)
Ghost Busters (Intro demo) [Demo, You must use the Universe BIOS and set region to Japan AES]
Ghostlop (prototype) [Prototype]
Gouketsuji Gaiden Legends (USA, ver. 95/06/20)
GP Rider (World, FD1094 317-0163)
Grasspin
Guardian
Gunbarich
Hammer Away (prototype) [Prototype]
Happy 6-in-1 (V102 - V101MK, China)
Heuk Sun Baek Sa (Korea)
Honey Dolls
Hot Mind (Hard Times hardware)
Hyper Crash (version D)
Hyper Street Fighter II: The Anniversary Edition (040202 USA)
Idol Mahjong - final romance 2 (Neo CD Conversion) [Hack]
Jackie Chan in Fists of Fire
Jockey Grand Prix (set 1)
Joe & Mac Returns (World, Version 1.1, 1994.05.27)
Joinem
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Heritage for the Future / JoJo no Kimyou na Bouken: Mirai e no Isan (Japan 990927)
JoJo's Venture / JoJo no Kimyou na Bouken (USA 990128)
Jonas Indiana and the Lost Temple of RA (20050717) [Homebrew]
Jumping Pop (Nics, Korean bootleg of Plump Pop) [Imperfect graphics]
Jumping Pop (set 1)
Jyangokushi -Haoh no Saihai- (990527 Japan)
Kero Kero Keroppi's Let's Play Together (USA, Version 2.0)
Ketsui Kizuna Jigoku Tachi (Revision 2?, Japan)
Knights of Valour 2 (V107, 102, 100, Hong Kong)
Knights of Valour 2 Plus - Nine Dragons (VM205XX, China)
Knights of Valour Super Heroes Plus / Sangoku Senki Super Heroes Plus (ver. 101) [Imperfect Protection Emulation]
Knights of Valour: Yi Tong Zhong Yuan / Sangoku Senki: Yi Tong Zhong Yuan (ver. 201, China) [Imperfect Protection Emulation]
Knuckle Bash 2 (bootleg)
Konami Test Board (GX800, Japan)
Kong (Donkey Kong conversion on Galaxian hardware) [Bad Colours]
Koro Koro Quest (Japan)
Kozure Ookami (Japan) [Imperfect Graphics]
Lady Master of Kung Fu
Last Hope CD Beta (Neo CD conversion) [Hack, Imperfect graphics]
Last Survivor (FD1094 317-0083)
Lethal Enforcers (ver UAE, 11/19/92 15:04)
Live Quiz Show
Lord of Gun (USA) [Imperfect graphics and sound]
Lover Boy
Lucky Today [Bad colours]
Mahjong G-Taste
Mahjong Hot Gimmick Integral (Japan)
Mang-Chi
Martial Masters (V104, 102, 102, USA)
Match It II
Matrimelee / Shin Gouketsuji Ichizoku Toukon (NGM-2660) (NGH-2660)
Mega Blast (World)
Meijinsen
Metal Saver
Metal Slug 4 (NGM-2630)
Metal Slug 5 (JAMMA PCB)
Metal Slug 5 (NGM-2680)
Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (set 3, World, FD1094/8751 317-0159)
Mighty Warriors
Mighty! Pang (001010 Euro)
Miss Bingo
Miss Puzzle
Monster Maulers (ver EAA)
Monsters World (bootleg of Super Pang)
More More
MTV Rock-N-Roll Trivia (Part 2)
MuHanSeungBu (SemiCom Baseball) (Korea)
Multi 5 / New Multi Game 5 (set 1)
Multi Champ Deluxe (ver. 0106, 06/01/2000)
Nandemo Seal Iinkai
Neo 2500 Demo [Demo]
Neo CastleVania Demo [Homebrew]
Neo Geo CDZ system [System - media selected seperately]
Neo No Panepon (beta) [Homebrew]
Neo Pong (ver 1.1) [Homebrew]
Neo System Check (ver 1.0b) [Demo]
Neo Thunder [Homebrew, sebastianmihai.com]
NeoGeo 2-Player Tetris [Homebrew]
NeoGeo 3D! Demo [Homebrew]
NGEM2K (beta 2006-01-18) [Homebrew]
NGF Transparency Demo [Homebrew, redarmor.net]
Ninja Kazan (World)
Noboranka (Japan)
Orbs (10/7/94 prototype?)
Oriental Legend Special Plus / Xi You Shi E Zhuan Super Plus (ver. 205) [Incomplete Dump]
Oriental Legend Super (V101, Korea) [Imperfect Protection Emulation]
Osman (World)
P-GeMeni (060123) [Homebrew]
Pairs Love
Pang Pang
Paparazzi
Party Time: Gonta the Diver II / Ganbare! Gonta!! 2 (World Release)
Planet Probe (prototype?)
Pochi and Nyaa
Pocket Gal Deluxe (Euro v3.00)
Pocket Gals V.I.P (set 1)
Poker Night [Homebrew]
Pop Bingo
Pop's Pop's
Power Drift (World, Rev A)
Primo Demo [Homebrew]
Progear (010117 USA)
Puzz Loop 2 (010302 Euro)
Puzzle Break
Puzzle Club (Yun Sung, set 1)
Puzzle Star (V100MG) [Incomplete dump]
Puzzli 2 (V100) [Incomplete dump]
PuzzLove
Quiz Olympic
Quiz Tonosama no Yabou 2 Zenkoku-ban (tonosama 2 950123 Japan)
Racing Beat (World)
Racing Hero (FD1094 317-0144)
Rack + Roll
Rage of the Dragons (NGM-264?)
Raiden DX (UK) [Coin inputs require holding down]
Rail Chase (World)
Rainbow Islands (new version)
Red Earth / War-Zard (Euro 961121)
Riot
Robocop (Intro demo) [Demo, You must use the Universe BIOS and set region to Japan AES]
Rock Duck (prototype?) [incorrect colors]
Rock'n 3 (Japan)
Rock'n 4 (Japan, prototype)
Rock'n Tread 2 (Japan)
S.V.G. - Spectral vs Generation (V200, China)
Samurai Shodown V / Samurai Spirits Zero (NGM-2700)
Samurai Shodown V Special / Samurai Spirits Zero Special (NGM-2720)
Saturn
Schmeiser Robo (Japan)
Scooter Shooter
Scorpion (set 1) [Incomplete Sound]
SD Fighters (Korea)
Search Eye (English / Korean / Japanese / Italian)
Search Eye Plus V2.0
Sengoku 3 / Sengoku Densho 2001
Shadow of the Beast (Neo Geo demo) [Demo]
Shinobi / FZ-2006 (Korean System 16 bootleg) (ISG Selection Master Type 2006)
Silver Millennium
Snapper (Korea)
SNK vs. Capcom - SVC Chaos (JAMMA PCB, set 1)
SNK vs. Capcom - SVC Chaos (NGM-2690)(NGH-2690)
Snow Brothers 3 - Magical Adventure [Bootleg]
Soldam
Sonic Boom (FD1094 317-0053)
Space Bomber (ver. B)
Space Raider
Spectrum 2000 (vertical)
Spiderman (Intro demo) [Demo, You must use the Universe BIOS and set region to Japan AES]
Squash (Ver. 1.0)
Street Fighter (US set 1)
Street Fighter II' - Hyper Fighting (street fighter 2' T 921209 ETC)
Street Fighter III 2nd Impact: Giant Attack (USA 970930)
Street Fighter III 3rd Strike: Fight for the Future (Euro 990608)
Street Fighter III: New Generation (Euro 970204)
Street Fighter Zero (CPS Changer, 951020 Japan)
Street Fighter Zero 2 Alpha (960826 Asia)
Strike Fighter (World)
Success Joe (World) [Incomplete sound]
Sukeban Jansi Ryuko (set 2, System 16B, FD1089B 317-5021)
SunA Quiz 6000 Academy (940620-6)
Super Bishi Bashi Championship (ver JAA, 2 Players) [Imperfect gfx (bad priorities)]
Super Model
Super Monaco GP (World, Rev B, FD1094 317-0126a)
Super Trio
Super Triv [No sound]
Surprise Attack (World ver. K)
SWAT Police
Taisen Hot Gimmick 4 Ever (Japan)
Tang Tang (ver. 0526, 26/05/2000)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Intro demo) [Demo, You must use the Universe BIOS and set region to Japan AES]
Tenchi wo Kurau II - Sekiheki no Tatakai (CPS Changer, 921031 Japan)
Tetris (D.R. Korea) [Wrong colors]
Tetris / Bloxeed (Korean System 16 bootleg) (ISG Selection Master Type 2006)
Tetris the Absolute The Grand Master 2
The Gladiator - Road Of The Sword / Shen Jian (V101) [Incomplete Dump]
The Killing Blade (V109, China)
The Killing Blade Plus (V300)
The King of Fighters 2001 (NGM-262?)
The King of Fighters 2002 (NGM-2650)(NGH-2650)
The King of Fighters 2003 (Japan, JAMMA PCB)
The King of Fighters 2003 (NGM-2710)
The Lost Castle In Darkmist
Thunder Heroes
Thunder Hoop (Ver. 1)
Time Fighter (Time Pilot conversion on Galaxian hardware) [Bad Colours]
Time Scanner (set 2, System 16B)
Time's Up Demo [Homebrew]
Toppy & Rappy
Treasure of the Carribean [Prototype]
Triple Draw Poker [Bootleg]
Trophy Hunting - Bear & Moose V1.0
Turkey Hunting USA V1.0
Twin Action
Twin Adventure (World)
Twin Falcons
Twinkle
Uncle Poo
unknown Pac-Man gambling game
V-Liner (set 1)
Varia Metal [Imperfect graphics]
Wally wo Sagase! (rev B, Japan, FD1094 317-0197B)
Water Balls
Wiggie Waggie
Wild West C.O.W.-Boys of Moo Mesa (ver EAB)
Wing Shooting Championship V2.00
Wonder League '96 (Korea)
Wonder League Star - Sok-Magicball Fighting (Korea)
Wonder Stick
Woodpecker (set 1)
WOW New Fantasia
WW2 Demo - Arcade Development Project [Homebrew]
Wyvern F-0
Zero Team USA (set 1, US, Fabtek license) [Coin inputs require holding down]
Zintrick / Oshidashi Zentrix (hack / bootleg) [Bootleg]
Zip & Zap [Imperfect GFXs, No Sound]
Zupapa!

(the same list for parents that ARE in mame2003 but not in FBAnext is over 1600, so i figure i want to just use FBAnext for its exclusive games)

of that list, I think it can be further narrowed to get rid of all the neo-geo, stuff that doesn’t work, and duff categories, so I’ll do that now and see if I can’t get a small list of the stuff that’s worth keeping in FBA.

[epe9686518]

FBA plays all of the capcom and neogeo games pretty much perfectly. Mame on the other hand has some issues with both capcom and neogeo games….Whether or not the new version of Mame improves things or not, I think the bigger point is why does it matter. I would recommend running FBA to handle all of the capcom arcade games and neo-geo games. And run mame to handle the rest. I have it set up where I did a special Capcom graphic in ES, and only have the capcom games in that one. And then have the Neo Geo games in the “Neo Geo” list in ES. I also run two versions of mame (mame4all,advmame) to cover all of the arcade games. Both of those are pretty stable and run most games well. Due to the nature of Mame, which is to say its not been built to emulate games as efficiently as possible, but rather to emulate games as true to the original hardware as possible, it will never be as good as FBA. Mame on PI would require a ton of per game hacks to really get most games playable at any decent speed. So I would opt for other arcade emulators when possible.

[dankcushions]

i already split out my neogeo games (i’m using lr-fba as my neogeo emulator) – makes things a lot easier to navigate in ES for sure!

i think speed-wise, i’m not seeing a difference between fba-next and mame2003. fba-next runs CPS3 (and at that, only SFIII properly), but other than that, it’s got everything else capcom covered I think? CPS2 runs full speed on mame2003. are there any other capcom games that don’t, but do on FBA?

currently my list of games that I need to run on fba-next is:

Street Fighter (US set 1)
Street Fighter III 2nd Impact: Giant Attack (USA 970930)
Street Fighter III 3rd Strike: Fight for the Future (Euro 990608)
Street Fighter III: New Generation (Euro 970204)
DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou (V101, Japan)
Espgaluda (V100, Japan)
Progear (010117 USA)
Hyper Street Fighter II: The Anniversary Edition (040202 USA)
Battle Garegga (Europe / USA / Japan / Asia) (Sat Feb 3 1996)
Ketsui Kizuna Jigoku Tachi (Revision 2?, Japan)

the rest on the previous list either don’t interest me, or don’t run on FBA-next properly, so i’m pretty happy with my setup, finally :)

[epe9686518]

I had trouble with some of the top down capcom jet shooters working on mame, but that was an older version of mame, not 2003, which I have not tested. But again they all worked 100% on FBA so i went with that

[Floob]

@epe9686518

When you say “Mame” or “FBA”, do you know which one was being used? Its just it would help work out what might be working best for people.
The available options are here:
https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/wiki/Managing-ROMs

For example, I run mame4all (non lr version), and lr-fba, and gngeo sometimes.
Although from reading posts I’m tempted to try out lr-fba-next as it looks like it supports even more romsets.

[epe9686518]

Right now I am using Mame4all non lr version too and AdvMame. Advmame does not run as well as Mame4all but it does use a newer romset and has support for more games. Mame4all runs most games quite well, Advmame runs a lot of games that Mame4all doesn’t support pretty well, but others not so much. Between the two you have a pretty nice list of classic arcade games that work great. I have not tried the new releases yet of mame or fba. As far as FBA goes, i am using PiFBA to run all of the capcom/neogeo roms. From what I have seen of FBA-Next, it does support more games, but most of the new games it supports are already supported by Mame4All or AdvMame and run well in those. I didn’t really see any major standouts that FBA-Next supports over what PiFBA provides right now, at least to me.

What I would love to see is a version of mame featuring a more uptodate rom set and a ton of speed hacks to get them to work nicely on Pi hardware or a Sega Model 2 emulator, that would be amazing. But I know the Model 2 emu would be a pipe dream as it requires a very strong CPU to handle those games and I don’t think we could ever overcome that on current Pi hardware.

[dankcushions]

libretro-fba-next or fba-libretro support SFIII/CPS3, which is nice. plus a few later cave shooters that aren’t in the older FBA emus.

mame2003 is pretty good. i really think it’s about as good as we’re going to get with the pi. the things it doesn’t support (apart from my list above), are 3d era which isn’t really feasibly on the pi. i do wonder why 2d scaling games (after burner, etc), and later midway games (MK series) struggle so much, but beyond that i fear there isn’t much optimisation possible.

to compound that, it supports a load of early 3d games (tekken, ridge racer, etc) but because of the version of mame (0.78/2003), they’re in early stages of emulation so have no sound/corruption… BUT it’s no loss as the performance is terrible anyway. the pi 2 just isn’t up to anything beyond ..most.. 2d arcade games.

[epe9686518]

Your kind of looking at the hardware the wrong way. MAME, as it stands, is solely designed to not emulate games efficiently, that is not the reason why it was invented. It was designed to emulate the actual, original hardware, as closely as it can, to how it really worked in a software only level. MAME is designed to document classic arcade hardware…

Those 3D Arcade games you talk about, such as Tekken… Run perfectly fine on PSX, which even though that is a console, those ports were pretty much 100% perfect. On top of that, the PI actually does an amazing job of running Dreamcast games very well even with the limited state of the current emulator. There are quite a few games that run at 100% full speed or very close, all of which are vastly more advanced and demanding on the hardware than any of the MAME 3d games…

It’s not that the PI can’t handle 3d…. It again comes down to how the MAME emulator is designed. The only way to get more games to work is to do a bunch of custom speed hacks per game, which should technically be able to get a lot more games working at speed, but not something we are likely to see happen…

When it comes down to various systems, you have to look at the state of the emulator being used. With a few more tweaks I have little doubt the Dreamcast emulator running most games at close to 100%. But at the same time, look at the N64 emulator, I currently have only about 30 games that are playable on that… Even though it’s far lesser hardware than Dreamcast, the way you have to emulate the N64 requires a good bit of power, and thus gives the Pi trouble… Hell even on PC there are a good number of N64 games that have issues…

I think there is a lot of room for improvement in both N64 and Dreamcast on Pi, but I don’t see much more being done with MAME…

[dankcushions]

oh absolutely – mame 3D far exceeds the demands of console 3d emulation, which are more interested in the end result than being accurate at a low level.

the pi’s GPU is quite competent compared to the CPU, but I think all of mame is done in software (CPU), which is the main problem, but that’s just how mame is. n64 and dreamcast emulation make use of the GPU.

[epe9686518]

I would love to see more progress made on N64 and Dreamcast, those are two of my all time favorite consoles and would be great to get more games working on them and the level of quality up. Its easily doable if people want to put in the work. I would love to see better arcade emulation, but due the issues we talked about above, I think we are pretty peaked at that at this point. Though I am quite happy with it, specially PiFBA, it’s got most of my favorite arcade games running 100% and its been a blast reliving my childhood again!

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